This photo, shot on 6/5/1940 I believe several days after service stopped on many els. This view is facing north on Fifth Avenue Brooklyn at 38th Street looking towards the 36th Street station. The tracks turning left will lead to the 3rd Avenue El in Brooklyn, while the tracks turning right are leading to the Culver Line. These tracks will go through the 38 th Street yard where they will meet the West End Line and lead to the lower level of the Ninth Avenue Station. This photo is interesting because as shown in my previously posted track map of the Fifth Avenue Elevated, South Portion, you can see the lattice remains of the multi track 36th Street yard which was built on the elevated structure. To the right of the former 36th Street Station is the present day Jackie Gleason Bus Garage, which formerly was a historic railroad building. In the front of the photo are tracks of the Fifth Avenue Trolley Line.
In an "alternate universe" Brooklyn (i have a thing for alternate universes) the only part of the fifth ave el was cut back from 65th street to 36th street in 1941 to make way for the new gowanus expressway.That 5th ave el and Fulton el would continue to operate up to 1956.that only portion of the Fulton street el was cut back to the flatbush ave ext from the sands street terminal in 1941.the sands street terminal was torn down in 1944.pinkin ave part of the Fulton street el in that universe continue operating until 1972-73.the Lexington el in that universe lasted till 1958.in Manhattan the 6th ave and 9th ave elevateds lasted in service up
ReplyDeleteuntil 1949-50 the second ave el 1956-57 and the third ave el 1965-66 the Bronx portion is still in operation now modernized and upgraded they didn't make the mistake of tearing it down.and the myrtle ave el in Brooklyn wasn't torn down is still in operation now modernized and upgraded.
Hi Anonymous:
DeleteI like your posting about "alternate universes". I sometimes think, if Mayor LaGardia was not anti-trolley and Robert Moses did not come along, and an anti-trolley Board of Transportation did not exist, what would our transit scene look today like? Would streetcars still exist on Church Avenue? Would some of the lighter bus routes be trolleybus operated. Unfortunately, in my humble opinion, the period to reinstate streetcars and trolleybuses existed in New York from around 1971 to recently. Why 1971? This was the birth of the environmental movement. Now, with building costs high, battery power being perfected, there is less of a need for railed electric transit in the public's eye. You be surprised how anti-electric surface transit some rapid transit fans are. At any rate, New York does not have the destiny to have the things that we are interested in. Brooklyn did not get a new subway station since 1948 and the Bronx since the 1940's. We can always dream.
Tramway Null(0).
Hi Anonymous:
DeleteThanks for your reply. I like your concept of an "alternate universe" and sometimes I think what could have happened if Mayor LaGardia was not anti-trolley and that Mayor G. around 1992 approved instead of disapproved of the proposed 42nd Street Light rail line in Manhattan. The 42nd Street Line was a "go" but mayor G. refused to sign on because he was concerned about sewer repair. If the 42nd Line was built, perhaps by now, over twenty years later, light rail would have been all around the city. I may have told you this before, but an experiment was done using computers in trying to build what you can say is an "alternate universe" if some facts were slightly changed. Let us say that NYC was founded in 1670 instead of 1664. This program, similar to present day Machine Learning (Perhaps) came out with result similar to yours: Same events but a few years off. I would just like to say that a few individuals, such as a Mr. Hamilton who was in charge of the
city of New York surface lines and started to busitute every line in his sight. In took a few individuals, the mayor, the NYC Board of Transportation, and others to destroy an efficient and expansive light rail network in NYC, IMHO.
Good Luck and thanks: TramwayNull().
Theres a lot of under utilized freight railroad lines thru out NYC that could be repurposed for light rail use. all the infrastructure is in place that can be utilized.
ReplyDeleteSometimes we "new yorkers" are too smart for our own good!
ReplyDeletein our own arrogance we think we're the center of the universe.
Tramway null(0)Thank you for liking my "alternate universe" posting.I appreciate that.
DeleteI forgot to mention in my "alternate universe" piece that the Brooklyn trolley lines out lasted ours by ten years(1966)and,the 59th street bridge shuttle one year later(1967)and the Brooklyn trolley buses some three years after that in (1970)
DeleteThat dolt of a mayor DI Blazio wants. a so called "Brooklyn queens connector" street car is a bad idea! it will not work and make the traffic problem a lot worst instead why not just reorganize the existing bus routes with express bus service only? it's much cheaper than riping up the street to lay down tracks and disrupting the life of the neighborhood,I don't have anything against light rail transit it would make more sense to utilize the existing former lirr freight railroad tracks that run from
ReplyDeletesunset park to the hells gate bridge and beyond lots of bus and subway lines intersect with it allowing a free transfer between buses and subways the last stop being sunset park which will be serviced by feeder buses it's a win win situation. in fact, there are many under used freight railroad lines through out New York City that can be used for that purpose
I would love to live in that "alternate universe" Brooklyn were the dodgers never left(playing out in their new stadium in coney island)and,the Brooklyn eagle news paper never went out of business
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous:
DeleteHow about instead of the R1-9's chosen as the car for the new subway, the BMT articulated Type D look alikes would have been chosen? In that other universe, almost every car in the B division would be articulated, including the still existing streetcars. Notice how hard it is to bring back streetcars to New York City. Every attempt is meet with failure, from Bob Diamond, two attemps for 42nd Street and now this terrible virus that destroys lives and plans for the future. IMHO, the subway is now boring with the look alike equipment. Elsewhere, it was said what if the BMT multi's became standard equipment for the els. Would they still be standing?
Thanks, just my opinion. Tramway null(0)