Today is the 45 Anniversary of the Demise of the Culver Line

How time flies!  It has been forty five yeas since  the end of my favorite line. I am not talking about the present day "F" train,  which is fine,  but the section of line between Ditmas Avenue and really 36th Street - Fourth Avenue.    The culver line had it all:  A subway section at Ninth Avenue and the section(s) near 36th Street, a brick lined tunnel from around 1900,  a ramp,  an elevated structure with trolley freight running underneath,   intersections with the Church Avenue trolley,  intersection with the Cortelyou Road trolleybus,  intersection at Ditmas Avenue with the Church McDonald trolley and a trolley turn around loop midblock on the west side of McDonald Avenue,  intersection with the then "D" train at Ditmas Avenue( no track connection), and unused steel girders south of the Ditmas Avenue station on the Coney Island bound side.   Some people will forgot that when the Culver Line became a shuttle in the fall of 1954,  the northern terminal in non-rush hours and week ends was the busy station at 36th Street and Forth Avenue.   In the years after 1954,  the north destination was Chambers Street by way of a loop that returned to the starting point at Ditmas Avenue.  Around 1958-59, there were drastic cuts that made the northern terminal Ninth Avenue.   But at first,   both tracks on the elevated structure were used.    I think that a December 1960 snowstorm shut down the Manhattan bound track for good and the line became a one track on train shuttle between Ditmas Avenue and Ninth Avenue full time.  Be careful what you wish for.   I was happy with the snowstorm because school was closed, but that was used as an excuse by the TA to get the track out of operation.  Who knows,  may be if not for that snowstorm, the second track would still be operating to the end?  Of course, there were other snowstorms after December 1960.   It is making the Culver a one track shuttle that drove away passengers.  If the steel girders south of Ditmas avenue were used to connect the BMT culver to the IND at 18th Avenue,  more passengers on the "D" train could have had a quick and transfer less ride to lower Manhattan,  but it never happened.   We are lucky that we had the Culver shuttle all together.   I do not have proof of this, but I read somewhere that the original plans was once the IND "D"train was extended south to Coney Island,  in the early 50's,  the Culver line section from Ditmas to Ninth Avenue were to be replaced with buses.  This meant that a lot of us would never have known about the Culver Line.
Thanks,
Tramway Null(0)

The Ft. Hamilton Parkway on the BMT Culver Line was never built in the Parkway Style

Not to long ago,  a reader of SUBCHAT asked why the Ft. Hamilton Parkway station, at 37th Street was built in the traditional BMT Dual Contracts style and not with a concrete arch, found at other parkway stations, throughout the city, such as Bay Parkway, Ocean Parkway, Pelham Parkway and other stations.  I cannot answer you but I will say that the former station at 37th Street and Ft. Hamilton Parkway is similar to the present day "Avenue P" station on the F train.  There is a booking hall under the station over Avenue P and parts of the platform area, are not covered with a canopy.  The former Ft. Hamilton Parkway also had one central entrance area. The picture below comes from a Culver Shuttle web site and shows the wooden wind screens that were never replaced with metal.  Notice the former walkway which was similar to the one at Avenue P and McDonald Avenues.

Perhaps a more elaborate  structure was not constructed because at the time of building (1914-19?), Ft. Hamilton Parkway was formerly called "Ft. Hamilton Avenue?".  Also, the area under the el was not paved, which was the former PRW of the Culver Line that ran on the surface. Of course, the street crossing was paved.  The area was a shabby area with a lot of South Brooklyn RR turnouts and perhaps it was not the place to make a fancy elevated structure, at least over the parkway.  It is ironic that if the second IND system would have been built, a branch off would have run under Ft. Hamilton Parkway to Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst and Staten Island.  Perhaps there would have been an interchange station between IND Staten Island trains and BMT Culver shuttle trains at this point and perhaps the structure would have been upgraded.  Just some thoughts though.  It is possible that under the el structure, up to Ft. Hamilton Parkway, parts of the South Brooklyn RR PRW may have had Third Rail .

Thinking the Impossible: Bringing Back the Culver Line

  Those of us the grew up in rich rapid transit environments that had "days of glory" in the  past have sometimes fantasies or thought experiments "What Would Happen If?" if some service of a much beloved line would be partially brought back.  In subchat, there are individuals that mirror this thought process of asking hard questions of  what would it take to somewhat restore some type of service.   In the universe that we live in, it is hard to bring back what has happened in the past especially if no one shares your views or the proposal is expensive.  It is especially hard like a place like New York City where after 1950, very limited rapid transit expansion took place.  Take the case of Brooklyn:  The last station to open was probably Euclid Avenue or Grant Avenue at the Queens border and this was probably in 1948 or 1950.  In the past 63 years, so many lines and stations were destroyed, including our beloved Culver Line in Brooklyn.  A vast trolley car system vanished with almost no trace.
  In the map below produced in ARCGIS, various railroad and rapid transit shape files were added and building footprints.  Look please at 37 th Street on the left of the picture.  In discussing the culver line, it is important to remember that along 37th Street, the elevated structure was over the SBRR right of way and not over 37th Street.    Private houses have been built along this right of way in may places.  The black and white map shows a dotted line where the approximate location of the el structure was found.

  In the future, I will discuss the Culver Shuttle Right of Way and some interesting points on the topic.  We will discuss the new buildings  built directly on the former Right of Way.

This picture come from an interesting web site called www.arrts-arrchives.com/NYBB.html.


This picture may be from the period of 1967 ( after the abandoned two tracks on the structure were removed and the end in 1975.    The structure would remain for about another nine years.  Notice the South Brooklyn RR tracks and the "coal silo" to the left of the picture.  This view is facing west on 37th Street west of 13th Avenue.  Actually 37th Street is to the right.

More to follow.

This picture from 1914 shows how the area looked when the Culver Line service was on the ground and before the el structure was constructed.  You are facing west towards 13th Avenue  and you can see the track crossing of the Church Avenue Trolley Line.  You can also see a UFO just at the crossing.  An interesting turnoff to the right where the gentleman is standing may be a lead to the Nassau Electric Yard which was across the street.  37th Street itself is to the right of the picture.  It is this PRW in which housing is being built or it used as parking lots.  Any restoration of Culver Line service, either subway or light rail would need to be now on or over 37th Street.

More to follow
.  This Google Map shot is taken on 37th Street facing west towards 13th Avenue.  The white building behind the trees and the brown three story tan brick building on the left of the shot were probably the same buildings shown above in 1914.  Notice how narrow 37th Street is.  When the El structure existed, the sidewalk on the right was very narrow.  The parking lot was the location of the Culver El and underneath, the South Brooklyn Railroad.  The low tan brick building on the right was the former site of the Nassau Electric Yard for streetcars.  How do I know?  Around 1971 a series of low wood garages occupied the site.  When the building on the right was constructed, the old rubble had to be  removed and it included a lot of railroad rails.

 In the map below, I tried to show the path of any rapid transit facility from Ninth Avenue to Ditmas Avenue.  It is mainly on or over 37th Street and not in the previous PRW.  To be discussed later.


  In the charts below, I write out some scenarios of what the restoration of service on the "Culver Shuttle" would be like after deciding mode, route and other options.  There is almost an infinite number of options available but just remember, this is a thought experiment.  An interesting thought though:  " Why must service be restored to Ditmas Avenue... would Church Avenue be better because it is a potential express stop and G stops there but not at Ditmas... "

What are your thoughts?

 Now that there is housing on the prior private of way, any form of rapid transit will need to take that into consideration.  What is interesting about the former Culver Shuttle, is that some sections still exist or can be made operational.  The Ninth Avenue Station {lower level} has three tracks with third rails available.  Some of these tracks extend southeast of the station to connect with yard track and to a portion of the South Brooklyn Rail Road.  Track on the surface extends to the 37th Street and Ft. Hamilton Parkway intersection.  At the east end, yes, there is a small stump that leads to the Ditmas Avenue Station.  This structure is probably sound but currently has no tracks on it.  The tracks were removed many years after service was abandoned.   This fourth track structure extends beyond the south end of the Ditmas Avenue Station.  If we had the money and permission of residents and elected officials, choices must be made about the mode, destinations and type of terminals decided upon.  The table below shows the many choices.  If an elevated is decided, questions regarding number of tracks, station location and type of elevated.  Would it be a iron "dual contracts" type of elevated or would it be a concrete affair like the line that goes to Kennedy Airport?  Would the residents like an elevated structure over the street?  How about a subway? As soon as the line leaves Ninth Avenue and momentary enters the open air, an incline can take the line into a subway along 37th Street.  Perhaps a one track subway with one station at 13th Avenue with a passing track.  What about Ditmas Avenue?  Should the subway enter a ramp to Ditmas Avenue?  There does not appear to be too much room for this.  Perhaps a one track subway station under the  Ditmas Avenue Station with an elevator to the upper level.  More dreams to follow in the future.

Anniversary of the Passing of the Culver Shuttle May 11, 1975

I forgot that May 11 is the anniversary of the passing of the Culver Shuttle.  I remember when it used to go to Chambers Street in Manhattan when I was very young.  One of the best experiences that I had as a child with the Culver Shuttle was the joy of seeing IRT LO-V cars on the shuttle around 1960.  This is the time when two tracks were operational on the line between Ninth; Avenue and Ditmas Avenue.  The Low-V cars were modified so that the gap between the sidewall of the car and the platform edge was filled in.  Most young people will not remember this, but the old equipment and the lines that they ran on, had a "smell".  This was not an unpleasant smell but a smell sort of like camphor, creosote and motor oil.  Each of the three subway divisions  (BMT, IND or IRT) had its unique smell because I found out later, the subway cars needed motor oils.  Even though the Lo-V's ran on the BMT, they smelled distinctly of the IRT.  The PATH system had a different smell. more like mildew of a damp basement and it was studied by PATH officials regarding its' cause.  Today the subway is oderless or smells of urine. Please find below a picture that I could not give proper credit to.  It is probably a Conrad photo and shows a Lo-V IRT subway car in Culver Shuttle service.  It is resting in the pocket track at Ditmas Avenue, many years ago.  Notice another signature of the Lo-V's, metal destination plates.  This Lo-V is signed up for Culver Line Service.  Source:  http://www.nycsubway.org.  The IRT Lo V cars had also a unique "groaning" sound when the train was going up a hill.  I remember this as the Lo-V's ascended the incline going to the Fort Hamilton Parkway station.

A Photo of Ninth Avenue Lower with BMT Standard Cars

A Culver Shuttle train rests in the middle track of the Ninth Avenue Station during the days that the line was equiped with BMT Standard Cars.  The staircase leads to the West End Line trains.  I believe that the front of the train is facing west based on the reflection on the glass window panel  (lower picture).
Source>Collection of: David Pirmann
Date: 2/21/1965 for second picture.  First picture is probably from the same source.

Culver Madness

The source for these two pictures is http://www.nycsubway.org  and Dave's Rail Pix.

The top picture shows an older streetcar on the Church Avenue Line eastbound to Bristol Street. It just turned on 37th Street and just entered the begining of Church Avenue.  The lumber yard, I am told, was formerly one of the building connected with the Nassau Electric yard on 37th Street near 13th Avenue.  Notice how close the streetcar runs close to the lumber yard.  Also towards the back of the picture, you can see the northbound platform windscreen on the Culver El structure.  You can make out probably some of the overhead wires from the South Brooklyn Rail Road that used to run directly in its' own PRW under the structure.  In other posts from this blog, I published pictures directly from that platform.  In the second picture, you see a BMT Standard car in Culver Shuttle service resting in the 9th Avenue Station.  The 9th Avenue Station lower level never got a lighting upgrade and was lighted by incadescent lights, which does not make for good photography.  This BMT Standard is parked in the middle track and you can barely make out the tiles on the station walls.  I found the BMT Standard cars very comfortable.  Notice the middle double doorway towards the left of the photo.  This served as the conductor's position for controlling the doors and you can see the push button control panel.  In cars in which the conductor was not present, the controls were not active and so many children, including myself, played with the push buttons.  My father asked one time a conductor that he knew how he liked being a conductor, and the conductor's response is that he enjoys pushing the buttons all day.  The BMT Standard photograph is probably from 1965 and the Church Aveue Trolley picture I do not yet have a date for.  Sorry for the quality of the Church Avenue Trolley photo.

 

Transit Authority's Airline Replacement for the BMT Culver Shuttle

Source:  ARCGIS ESRI Sandy Hurricane Before / After Map Source Panel

www.esri.com/services/disaster-response/hurricanes/hurricane-sandy-the-aftermap: 6k

"In order to help "D" (West End) riders reach the "F" line at Ditmas Avenue, the Transit Authority is pleased to announce the establishment of the new "Culver Shuttle Airplane".  This service will be made available by walking by foot to the "airport" on the easterly side of 37th Street near Fort Hamilton Parkway or taking a new shuttle train that will arive in the lower level of the Ninth Avenue Station and will exit the portal to a temporary wooden platform on 37th Street near the airport.  Passengers will need only to cross 37th Street.  (The track in the area is already 3rd Rail equipped).  Passengers will be equipped with parachuttes and will be given a selection of stops to drop off at, the main drop off point will be Ditmas Avenue on the F train and Coney Island.  Please speak to your pilot for requested drop off points.  If the service becomes popular, some "V" trains will provide direct service to Ninth Avenue (Lower Level) or the airport at 37th Street."  In keeping with tradition, the shuttle train between Ninth Avenue Lower and the airport will be labeled number "5"".

Actually, I am not sure if this airplane was photographed by satelite or a higher flying plane.  I came across it by accident.  ARCGIS ESRI provides an interactive map showing before and after pictures with a map underlay.  The focus when opening this map is the devasted Breezy Point area of the Rockaways, but you can adjust the map to anyplace in New York City.

There is an airplane path in the area that flies north following the numbered avenues (like 13th Avenue) and passes the Grand Army Plaza area of Brooklyn.  As a child, I remember the same path was in existence and I remember the propeller planes (US Constellations?) that followed this path.  I remember that at times, one of the four propellers would drop out of service and would start to sputter.  You could see and hear this at ground level.  Thank Gd the plane had three other propellers.  The plane in the picture is following the same air pattern.

Please find below a aerial of the washed out section of the Rockaway Line after Sandy using the same resource.  Its' location is north of the Rockaway area in Jamaica Bay.

Another View from the Manhattan Bridge - July 2012

This beautiful shot was taken last week by docjayva from the Manhattan Bridge looking south to lower Manhattan showing the World Trade Center area.  Since we are on the subject of the Manhattan Bridge and some of my posts deals with the Culver Line, either as a subway line or as the Culver-Fifth Avenue Elevated line, I would like to tell you about an unusual Culver Line operation in the subway.  I will verify this in the future, but in the 1950's before the line was truncated at Ditmas Avenue and even afterwards, there was an unusual loop operation in the morning rush hour.  Trains would depart Ditmas Avenue and go north to 36th Street and 4th Avenue where they would run express to Pacific Street.  I am not sure if the Culver trains would stop at Dekalb Avenue but would go over the Manhattan Bridge and loop southward to the Nassau Street loop.  This connection does not exist today since the Chrystie Street Loop service began in 1967.  The Culver trains would now go southbound through the Nassau Street Loop, into the Montague Street tunnel and run local southbound on Fourth Avenue.  It would stop at 36th Street and finally end up at Ditmas Avenue were it started from!    The BMT Standard subway cars had two types of roll signs, large and small.  The description of the route was something like ".. Via Bridge to Manhattan and Southbound via Nassau  Street Loop..."  I am not sure of the exact wording but it was clearly not visible on the small size BMT Standard destination curtains.   This service ended in 1959 when the Culver Line really became a true shuttle between Ditmas Avenue and  Ninth Avenue. (To be verfiied and modified in the future.)
Readings on a BMT Standard roll sign is found below.  Taken from web.  Culver related items in red.

Ditmas Ave 36th St.-4th Av Forest Hills-Queens
Astoria
Via Tunnel thru
NASSAU LOOP Via Bridge to Bklyn
Via Bridge thru
NASSAU LOOP Via Tunnel to Bklyn
6th Av.Manh't'n
8th Av.Manh't'n
Myrtle Av.
Eastern P'kwy
Atlantic Av.
Canarsie
Bowery
Chambers St.
Canal St.
Jamaica
Crescent St.
111th St.
Metropolitan Av.
Broad St.
Whitehall St.
Queens Plaza
95th St.-Ft.H'ton
Prospect Park
Franklin Av.
Franklin-Nassau
Nassau St.
Brighton Beach
57th St. Manh't'n
Kings Highway
Times Square
Coney Island
Bay Parkway
62nd St. Bklyn
City Hall
Ninth Av.

B.M.T. Culver Line Before its' cutback at Ditmas Avenue

Photo Source: Collection of George Conrad,  http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/

This photo, taken on 9/12/54 which  was several weeks before the line was cutback at Ditmas Avenue, two stations down the line.  The view is from the southbound track facing the 13th Avenue Station to the east.  The train is on the Manhattan bound track and consists of B.M.T. Standard Cars.  These standard cars were made of steel and where quite comfortable.  What is interesting in this photo is that the third rails were at time and never on this portion, ever covered with wooden protection boards.  On the right side of the photo, you can see at least three coal silos.  The large factory that appears above the train
is the Flatbush Terminal Building which occupies most of the block on 14th Avenue between 37th Street and 38th Streets.  This large factory had its' own freight siding equipped with trolley wire and poles.  Underneath the el structure was two South Brooklyn Rail Road tracks in a private right of way.  This trackage was equipped with trolley wire and there were many sidings also equipped with trolley wire under the structure for freight delivery, specially coal. In the later years, only one el track remained in service (the one on the right) and one track shuttle service was provided between Ditmas and the Ninth Avenue stations.