Proposed Waterfront Streetcar Between Brooklyn and Queens may be in Trouble

Hi Folks:

  Sorry for being away, but not too much was happening.   New news recently came about that the proposed waterfront streetcar between Brooklyn and Queens may be in trouble.  One source of trouble is the funding and the second may be the opposition form neighborhood residents and groups.  This may have been predicted.  One trouble source may be the cost of relocating utilities along the many mile right of way.  Why utilities should be relocated if new streetcar tracks do not need to have a base very deep into he ground is a question that I have.  This point killed the proposed 42nd Street Light Rail Line around 1994?   Other bad news, or lack of news, is that of the proposed trolleybus systems for Spokane, Washington and Montreal Quebec.    I think these proposals are dead because the away from the wire technology using batteries and capacitors is really advancing. Who needs wires anymore?  So systems buy battery buses.  The proposed trolley bus system for Leeds in England died about a year ago as well.

For establishing a new streetcar system or line for an area that is hostile towards electric transit or did not have it for many years, I would:

1. Start with a very small line.
2. The line should be a very strong feeder to a subway line where no other transportation is available except feed in bus lines.
3. Development of real estate should not be a factor.  They can be used in built up areas.
4. The new line should be marketed for efficiency in terms of moving people at a low cost, lower than that of diesel or battery buses.
5. The new line should be somewhat grade separated from other traffic.
6. The new line should not be expensive and have  not have all the bells and whistles.  A simple on surface stations should be available will a small canopy.
7. If possible, used equipment should be used to emphasize low cost and efficiency,  New equipment can come later.
8. The line should not block the view ( wires ) of  people who are hostile towards any type of wires.
9. Modern streetcars are much more comfortable than any type of bus.  Conversion of diesel bus lines to streetcar should be put forth on the basis of efficiency, environment and passenger comfort.
10. If possible, a streetcar line should feed seamlessly into existing heavy rail, such as found in Toronto.  Streetcars at some terminals dive underground and meet heavy rail at platform level for easy transfer between modes.  This can be very expensive for cities like New York.  A candidate would be the Essex Delancey former trolley terminal in the Lower East Side.  Do not use this hidden facility as a park but make it into a trolley terminal for streetcars going over the bridge.  This will help out when the "L' train tubes close down for repairs.
11. Candidates may be: Streetcars at Pelham Bay Park station (6)  to Co-op City.
12. End of Queens rapid transit lines:  179th Street Jamaica, Parsons-Archer.
13. Staten Island routes and former North Shore Line.
14. Central Bronx:  Former right of way of the Third Avenue El.
15. Brooklyn:  Pennsylvania Avenue, Nostrand Avenue at Brooklyn College
16. Lower East Side Manhattan access via a far east avenue to Union Square or 14th Street.

A Comment:
    Earth Day has been around for almost 50 years.  This year we celebrate it on April 22, 2017.
Of course, the City of New York, the various mayors that we had during this time and the Transit Authority are pro environment.  How come rarely or perhaps never, modern streetcars and trolleybuses were proposed as an efficient way to deal with the environment?  There are hundreds of bus lines in New York City; certainly at least one of them meets the criteria from an objective engineering viewpoint to be a good candidate for conversion into trolleybus or streetcar, not because of development but because of efficiency and comfort.

Tramway Null(0)

If Sunset Parkers Do Not Want the Waterfront Streetcar, Send it to Ninth Avenue Lower instead, or Ft. Hamilton Parkway

You are facing southwest on Third Avenue Brooklyn, under the Gowanus Expressway.  Instead of the proposed streetcar traveling south on Third Avenue where it is not wanted, let it turn east as shown above to the left, and enter the South Brooklyn yard between Third and Fourth Avenues.  Perhaps at least, the New York City Transit Authority shops may service and store the cars?  Notice the SBRR lead track crossing Third Avenue and leading to the yard.  This is near 37th Street.  The tracks to the left lead into a two track tunnel,  Further east, there is a massive 37th Street Yard that may be able to service the streetcars.  To reach this, some reverse moves may be necessary , including some on the famous ramps that we mentioned previously.  The curved track above is not the original track that crossed Third Avenue at this general location.  Cosco now covers the approximate PRW of the SBRR and the original tracks were at right angles to Third Avenue near this location.  For many years,  under the highway, the trolley wire for this crossing was still intact, perhaps into the 1980's?

  Please go to this beautiful website directly (BQX) = Brooklyn Queens Connector

http://www.bqx.nyc/

http://www.bqx.nyc/


As you know, there is a proposal to build a waterfront streetcar line from Astoria, Queens to Sunset Park, in Brooklyn.  The organization that is sponsoring it, is beginning to hold hearings with the public regarding routing, costs, design, parking and many other issues.
So far, I believe, two hearings were held: The first in Sunset Park and the second in Astoria.  While I do not have the raw data, from what I heard, Sunset Parkers are concerned about the rise of rents in their working class area and other issues.  "Why not have a bus line?".  There are already several bus routes in the area, not all of them going to Astoria.  As for me, a "stinkbuggy" just does not excite me.
How about missing Sunset Park completely since the public may not want it or say that they do not need it?


      It is interesting that the route of the proposed streetcar, travels on Third Avenue and will cross at right angles the single South Brooklyn Railroad Track around 36-37 Streets near Cosco.  I posted this picture already.    What would happen if:

• Instead of continuing south on Third Avenue, the streetcar's two tracks turn at 90 degrees and enter the South Brooklyn yard between Third and Fourth Avenues?
• Continue in the yard and join the "D" subway tracks before entering the elderly, twin track tunnel and proceed east.
• Continue in the PRW of the West End "D" train to either Ninth Avenue upper middle or Ninth Avenue Lower middle (former Culver Line).
• If proceeding to Ninth Avenue Lower middle, continue to portal and run via yard to the intersection of Ft. Hamilton Parkway and 37th Street.  This would be a terminal providing sort of a replacement for the Culver Shuttle.

I now that you may think that I am crazy, but there are many things so consider:

• If the streetcars are operated without wires for the entire or portion of the line, wires do not need to be construction on the South Brooklyn RR or MTA subway sections.
• An if wires would be required, who would object, since it is going through a yard and PRW?
• Does the twin track brick tunnel east of Fourth Avenue have enough clearance to handle streetcars and wires?
• Can streetcars share the same tracks with regular subway equipment?
• If they do, will they need to be built according to Federal standards for RR operation?
• Can the tracks handle both subway and streetcar traffic in terms of scheduling?
• Would streetcar traffic on subway tracks cause a problem with the signaling?

• I know that in Germany, some streetcars share tracks with subway and suburban trains.

What would the advantages of this be?

• Perhaps the waterfront streetcar  could use the NYCTA's 37th Street Shops  for storage and repairs, cutting down the need to build new shops and depots for the new streetcar line.
• If the streetcar would go to Ninth Avenue upper middle,  "D" train users could make a cross platform transfer to the streetcars.
• If the streetcar woul go to Ninth Avenue lower middle and beyond, former Culver Shuttle users near Ft. Hamilton Parkway and east can have a few minute trip to make connections with the West End "D" train.
• Perhaps the line can be extended to Ditmas Avenue via 39 th Street, effectively recreating the former Culver Shuttle.

Some questions are:

• If a rider gets on at Ft. Hamilton Parkway or Ninth Avenue, does that passenger need streetcar service on Third Avenue instead of taking the faster Fourth Avenue  Subway ( R, D and N Trains to Manhattan)?
• Are Astoria riders or other riders along the route interested in getting to Kensington Brooklyn (Ft. Hamilton Parkway and 37th Street) without taking the subway?

To be continued / Not Proofread    Rough Draft Tramway Null(0)

The Luckenbach Pier Explosion and Streetcars

Photo from the organization that is supporting the Waterfront Streetcar Line.  It just so happens that this rendition is showing buildings on the west side of Third Avenue near 33 or 35th Street, so near the site of the  explosion in 1956.

  Many of you from the New York area have heard about news to bring back streetcars along the Brooklyn-Queens waterfront.  The mayor of the City of New York said that he will support this project and this did get and continues to get much press.  This proposed line is supposed to run from Astoria in Queens to Sunset Park in Brooklyn.  The above image comes from the group that is supporting this project.  This project is not without its' critics, however.  The above picture shows  a streetcar that appears to be running under the Gowonas Expressway, actually Third Avenue.  Notice that the car is wireless and it appears to be in the western lane of the avenue.  While I am not sure, this artist's picture appears to be on Third Avenue, under the highway in the 30's.
   Whenever I am in this area, the general Sunset Park area, I get a strange feeling dealing with the Luckenbach Pier explosion that occurred on December 3, 1956 at 35th Street.  I was in the first grade at the time and though I was not near the explosion, it left a mark on me.  Also at this time, which was only 33 days after the Church Avenue Trolley stopped running, I wonder what it would have been to be in the trolley at the First Avenue Loop, at 39th Street and First Avenue, at the time of the explosion just four blocks away?  Of course, the trolleys stopped running 33 days before but what was it like in the diesel bus at the loop at the time of the explosion?


    I happened to be near the intersection of 39th Street and Third Avenue a few days ago and I spoke to a merchant that was in the area on that faithful day.  The glass skylight caved in at his store but thank G-d, no one was hurt. Notice the highway above.   The store owner told me that the force of the explosion caused a piece of metal to drop from the highway and hit a young boy in the head near his store.  The boy died immediately.  There were 10 fatalities on that day, none Fire Department personnel but over 200 civilians were injured.

  It is funny that streetcars may come to this area again, even though it may take decades.  This area is so rich in transit history.  There was a Third Avenue Trolley along the street that our new streetcar may someday travel.  Above, the Third Avenue-Fifth Avenue  BMT el ran to Bay Ridge.  Our beloved Church Avenue, and Eight Avenue trolleys ran on 39th Street.  South Brooklyn RR had a yard in the area, full with trolley wires.  Historic 19th Century train stations were in the area and so on.   West End and Culver Subway trains curved into the Fourth Avenue Subway near this location.

On another tragic day, the day of 9-11, I traveled to work but I did not get off the subway.  We were told that no trains were going through lower Manhattan.  I started home by subway but between 10 and 11 am, we were kicked off the F-train at Fourth Avenue and Ninth Street.  I walked to Fifth Avenue and took a Fifth Avenue (B-63) bus westbound.  Guess were all service stopped?  Fifth Avenue and 39th Street in view of the bay.   Needless to say, I felt very bad with this ongoing tragedy with similar tragic feelings that I link to the the Luckenbach explosion.   Basically the feeling was connect with destruction near the harbor facing west.
  In 1956, I was in a retail market thirteen avenue blocks away from the harbor.  The force of the explosion blew open heavy exit doors and various stores on 39th Street near 13th Avenue had their windows blown out.  Although the fire preceded the explosion, the sky at that time started to darken fast, but remember, this was a shorter winter day.  I was told that pieces of the pier or storage building were blown over 1000 feet into Red Hook.  I was also told that at the time of the explosion, on what is called now the Culver Viaduct, at that time D trains with R1-9 subway cars suffered window damage as well.  Someone told me that the pocket that the door closes into on the R1-9 subway car, which contains a small window cracked at the time of the explosion but no one was hurt. Passengers saw the flames and smoke from the Smith-9th Street station.


   Below is a Google Map image of the area taken from the highway structure at 3rd Avenue and 35th Street.  The Waterfront Streetcar rendition appears to be taken around the same area.  You are facing north west.  To the left side of the image, you are facing 35th Street and you can see the bay.  This was the general location of the Lukenbach Pier that exploded in 1956.  I could imagine the shock wave that was felt by cars on the highway just as the dock exploded while the cars were passing this point perpendicular to 35th Street.  By the time the pier blew, the pier was on fire with heavy smoke for some time.  Perhaps traffic was stopped on the highway before the explosion.

The new waterfront streetcar may run below on Third Avenue at this location.