October 31, 1956 Again

 When streetcar service stopped on October 31, 1956, service on the McDonald Avenue branch ended as well.   In the picture above,   I am sorry, I lost the reference, a south bound PCC car is about to cross Cortelyou Road and McDonald Avenue.  In the foreground and above and perpendicular to the picture is the wooden support for the B-23 Cortelyou Road trolleybus which also ended on the same day.  The car shown, may make a short turn at the Kensington Loop on the next street or may go all the way to Coney Island.   PCC cars entered Church Avenue service around 1951  and notice above that the wooden ties are missing to three of the four tracks on the structure.  Through service to Coney Island started on October-November 1954 on the elevated structure above, so this picture can be dated from 1951 to 1954.

In the sixty years plus that Brooklyn lost it's trolleys, trolleys have made a comeback in various forms to even cities that were hostile to them, such as Los Angeles, Paris, London and other cities.   Of the world class cities, only New York and Chicago and some others cannot, will not, or simply cannot bring trolleys back, even for a demonstration line running a few hundred feet.

Many years ago, I posted a video of the Volgograd tram subway from the former Russia.   There, PCC type cares run on the street then descend into a tunnel with nice stations.   I would if I could would build such a line between Brooklyn and Staten Island.   Why not a subway?   I believe  that modern PCC cars can make up the grade on the roadway of the Verazano Bridge.  Thus you would not need to build a billion dollar tunnel.  The line can go underground in Bay Ridge and meet at platform level at one of the "R" stations on 4th Avenue in Bay Ridge for a cross platform transfer.  In Staten Island, the line can run underground like in Volgograd, or private right of way or in the middle of an important but wide street.

Just a suggestion.
Tramway Null

Was this Taken at Avenue "N"?

ref name=NYPL>{{cite web | url=http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/6f8a2cb0-a75d-0133-89e3-00505686d14e | title= (still image) View from the N Street station, (1954) }} |author=Digital Collections, The New York Public Library |accessdate=February 3, 2017 |publisher=The New York Public Library, Astor, Lennox, and Tilden Foundation}}</ref>

This photo was taken by Max Hubacher in 1954 and was obtained from the source above.  I do not believe that this is the view from the Avenue "N" station because you will see some interesting items.  Incidentally, you are seeing a southbound BMT Culver Line train composed of BMT Standard cars,  I think the B Types with roof vents.  The "S & M Plumbing & Heating Supplies" I believe is right at the private right of way of the Bay Ridge Division LIRR.  At that time, this branch operated with overhead high voltage wires and you can see the silver painted high tension wire support to the left of the train.  I believe part of that support may exist today and you can see it while looking out the west side of a southbound "F" train.  I believe that behind the train you can see the double platform 18th Avenue station.  The high wire support raised the high tension wires above the level of the Culver Line.  Notice the small yard to the left.  I believe that I may have seen a map years ago showing this.  This site today is occupied by "Amazing Savings" and other big stores near the Avenue "I" station.  The building dealing with plumbing supplies I believe still exists and has been refurnished.  The only electric transportation in this area is only the present day "F" train.  The LIRR pulled the plug on overhead power at this location many decades ago and the wires for the South Brooklyn Railroad and McDonald Avenue Trolley were gone by 1965. The tracks under the el lingered for a few more decades but were removed within the last twenty years because they were said to be hazard to motorists.
The map below comes from a great South Brooklyn RR site and shows the Parkville interchange.
ca. 1920 - ca. 1959 
R. Emery map
courtesy of S. Lynch
(modified by author and reoriented for north)
added 11 Dec 2009

Is that the freight house in the left bottom corner?

Thanks so much for the map below from the link below!
http://arrts-arrchives.com/sbrt.html

Are Bus Lines Permanent vs. Streetcar Lines?

This photo was taken from the New York City Transit Museum.  It is from the Luden Collection and was photographed on April 16, 1948.   You are looking east at the intersection of McDonald Avenue and Cortelyou Road in Brooklyn.  The photographer is probably standing directly underneath the Culver Line ( main line ) as it swings north westerly.  The structure that you are looking at is the untracked ( except perhaps for the local Manhattan bound track ) connection to the Independent Subway that did not open yet.  In the foreground you can see the track shadows of the Culver El.  The connection to the Independent Subway was not yet put in place and would not be in operation until four years later  in October, 1954.  Notice the various wooden troughs for the trolley wires under the el on McDonald Avenue for the # 50 Streetcar.  Notice at right angles to the el structure, a broad wooden trough for the Cortelyou Road trolleybus (#23) overhead.
   This week, news came out that the mayor of the City of New York, Bill Di Blasio gave his seal of approval for a long waterfront streetcar line from Astoria Queens to Sunset Park in Brooklyn. To my surprise, there is not universal approval for this proposal.  One of the critic points is that a bus line can serve the same purpose for the fraction of the cost.  Some people say that bus lines can be eliminated rapidly while streetcar lines cannot.  The Cortelyou Road line started as a streetcar line on 16th Avenue.  In the early 1930's, the BMT corporation experimented with the first trolleybuses in Brooklyn on this line.  The wood trough above is probably when the line went into operation in 1932?.  To make a long story short, the line was bustituted on October 31, 1956 and remained a diesel bus line until a few years ago when it was completely ELIMINATED.  It is funny that the first trolleybus line in Brooklyn, probably which had many passengers was later eliminated when it was a diesel bus line. If a company wants to make an real estate investment, bus lines can come and go according to politics, but tracks and wires are difficult to ignore... but look what happened to also Route 23 in Phildadelphia:  Germantown Avenue.   More to follow later.

Somewhere Along McDonald Avenue

The photo below, also comes from the New York Transit Museum Archives and it is from the Lonto-Watson collection.  It was taken on April 9, 1955 somewhere along McDonald Avenue.  This is the period after the Culver Line was "captured" by the IND Subway in October 1954 and PCC streetcars were found on the last three streetcar lines in Brooklyn (Church Avenue, Church-McDonald and Coney Island Avenue)  Streetcar service ended under the Culver Line on October 31, 1956.  This great shot shows a train of R1-9 cars on the Independent "D" Line (Sixth Avenue Line) between 205th Street in the Bronx and Coney Island.  Great side view shot of the PCC car and the"D" train. The PCC car shares its' tracks with the South Brooklyn Railroad.

McDonald Avenue PCC Car near Neptune Avenue Brooklyn

This photo comes from Dave's Rail Pix (Joe Testagrose Collection) and was shot on February 26, 1956. The car is on the Private Right of Way near West 5th Street south of Neptune Avenue. The Brighton Laundry is in the background. This is a very interesting picture because it shows that not all of the McDonald Avenue trolley trackage was under the el. Notice the iron poles supporting a heavy load of power source cables (at extreme right of photo). I believe that in back of the laundry was a BMT substation the supplied electricity for the subway\el trains and streetcars in the area. Years after streetcar and electric freight operations ended in the area (trolley freight electric service by South Brooklyn Rail Road in 1961), the power cables remained. After new housing was built in the area, the right of way of the trolley became a parking lot for the area residents. The trolley line poles with the heavy load of power cables marked the way of the previous trolley path. For some reason, I remember that each individual trolley line pole was "wrapped" in a rectangular cyclone fence type of box years later. Perhaps the transit authority did not want kids to get electricuted. The photo is also interesting because it shows to the left, the elevated structure of the Culver Line. This structure at this point has a lattice type of appearance because the components came from the BMT Fulton Street El that was reconstuctured. The elevated structure in this section dates from 1919 to 1920.  Take a look of the next photo.  The elevated structure at this point may not be of the lattice type.  The pattern shown may be caused by the sun at this point.   On the elevated structure at this point which is two tracked is a train of IND R1-9 cars in Independent Line service on the "D" train. The heavy power cables, if I remember correctly, joined to the two level elevated structure near the West 8th Street station. When a new substation was built just at the location where the Culver Line swings out 90 degrees from the West 8th Street station in the 1970's, the power cables and poles were removed. Also in this picture is a few of our UFO friends (UFO like lighting fixtures) above the private right of way.

 

 

  In the above photo, taken in 1972 by D. Reinecke,  a train of class R-40 subway cars on the F route are either about to enter or just left the lower level of the West 8th Street station in Coney Island.  I cannot see on what track the train is on.  In the foreground, is the roof of the new substation.  If you look to the right of the photo you can see the trolley line poles and the heavy cables that mark the prior right of way of the McDonald Avenue trolley.  Notice the laundry in the center of the picture and notice the new multi story residential buildings in the area.

 

 

 

This photo was taken on 3/24/68 by Dough Grotjahn  and is part of the Joe Testagrose collection.  You can see the trolley support poles at the right side of the photo, just near the back of a train of slant R-40's on their way to Manhattan and Queens on the F-Culver route.  This train just left the lower level of the West 8th Street station.  You can see the substation under construction in the foreground.  The el is not lattice like at this point.

 

  In this 1954 Brian J. Cudahy picture,  a train of BMT Standard cars on the Culver Line are approaching the West 8th Street station just at the spot where the substation is located today.  This is before the Culver Line was converted and connected to the Independent 6th Avenue subway.  The buses on the right, according to the photo info at http://www.nycsubway.org are out of town private buses parked for the day.  The trolley line poles with many wires are seen on the other side of elevated.

 

 

  In the shot below by Harry Pinsker (5/9/59), a set of IND "D" train R1-9 cars at the same location turning into West 8th Street station..  Compare how the area looked in 1959 to that of 1972.  Many old building were uprooted to build the big housing developments.  The fence below the el structure at the extreme left and center of the shot is the former location of the trolley right of way.  I believe the white building on the horizon line is Coney Island Hospital on Ocean Parkway.

 

 

 

PCC Car 1001 Aproaches Church and McDonald Avenues

http://www.davesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt409.htm


  At this time, I am having trouble downloading pictures.  If you click on the shortcut above, you will see PCC car 1001 on the Number 50 McDonald Avenue route running southbound getting ready to cross Church Avenue.  This picture comes from the Dave Pirmann collection from Joe Testagrose.  If you look down the avenue, you will see a hill.  Situated on the hill was the old 9th Avenue Depot which was the home to some of the trolley lines in Brooklyn that were discussed in this blog.  This site, at 19th Street and 9th Avenue, was a two tier depot and I posted some track diagrams of lines going through the area.  The site is presently occupied by a religious high school and houses a big radio transmittal tower that can be seen for miles.  The white building on the right of the PCC car was the Greater New York Saving Bank.  The same site today is occupied by another bank and under the PCC car is the large Church Avenue IND Subway station that is presently served by "F" and "G" trains.  Click on the link above and you will see many goodies from all over.

The picture above was taken sometime between 1951 and 1956 when PCC cars ran on the line.

1924 Aerial of Gravesend Race Track Pathway with recent Building Footprint

In the attached map, I took the 1924 aerial of the Gravesend Race Track former area in Brooklyn off McDonald Avenue and georeferenced it to today's maps.  I included a recent (2009?) building footprint layer.  By looking at the shadow of the oval raceway runway, you can see how far away was the main pathway from your building if you live in the area.  The runway runs just south of Kings Highway, along East 5th Street, crosses East 4th Street and Avenue T, bottoms out between Avenue T and Avenue U, and runs along East 1st Street parallel to the Culver El structure to Kings Highway.

South Brooklyn Railway Track Plan as of 9/29/1960

Source:  B. Linder, Part 10, South Brooklyn's Trolley Operations, ERA Bulletin, October, 1976, p.8. (From a drawing dated September 29, 1960)

This line drawing, drawn in 1960 needs some explanation because there is a gap in the map.  Here are some of the points:

• The map does not show which trackage is under trolley wire or associated with third rail.  From my memory and seeing past diagrams, trolley wire extended from 4th Avenue and 38th Street, just west of the 4th Avenue overpass to the waterfront.
• From 4th Avenue and east, the SBRR tracks joined the subway tracks currently used by the West End Line (D Train) and also formerly used by the Culver Line that either ran to 36 th Street and 4th Avenue or Chambers Street in Manhattan.
• The trackage from the junction with the West End Line to 9th Avenue Station is not shown.  This was jointly operated with subway trains using third rail and had an interesting passage through an elderly two track brick lined tunnel that is in use today. 
• The two platformed 9th Avenue station shown is really on the lower level beneath the West End Line and was used by the Culver Line until 1975.  This was the same station where a popular film was shot. (Crockodile Dundee?)
• Approximately east of Fort Hamiliton Parkway trolley wire began and was hanging at this point under the Culver El.
• From this point and south, most SRBB trackage was either in a private right of way or in street trackage under the Culver Line to approximately Avenue Y where trackage meet up with the BMT Coney Island Yard.
• Notice the various sidings, particularly between 13th and 14th Avenues and 37th Street, under the 13th Avenue Station that I posted a photograph of.
• Notice the various coal sidings and Fisher's siding.
• It is hard to believe that at this time, the trolley overhead was still charged and in use even though trolley operations stopped on McDonald Avenue on October 31, 1956 and all trolleybus service stopped in Brooklyn on July 27, 1960.  I believe the wire was still charged until 1961 and the overhead was removed by 1965.  There may have been a historic trolley run using a vintage Scandinavian trolley under SBRR trackage on 37th Street in 1961 by Electric Railroader's Association.



Are these streetcars on the siding south of Ave T? - 1924 Aerial Photograph

The area of the former racetrack is towards the east and off the picture.

Gravesend (McDonald) Avenue Line: 1912-1920 Layout

Source:  B. Linder, New York Division Bulletin, Electric Railroaders' Association, Vol. 20, No.5, October 1977, pages 2-9.  This map shows the period when 5th Avenue Elevated trains ran on the surface using trolley poles for power on Gravesend Avenue..  After the elevated structure opened over Gravesend Avenue during the period of 1919-20, another layout was established in which the low level platforms shown above were gradually removed.   Culver-5th Avenue Elevated trains used the new structure since 1919. The trackage shown on Gravesend Avenue ( which became McDonald Avenue in 1935) was also used by trolley freight locomotives run by the South Brooklyn Railway.  There is much to discuss here; trolley freight operations, sidings, summer only trolley specials on Gravesend Avenue and if you look closely, there is race track siding at Avenue T for the Brooklyn Jockey Club.  Hope to discuss this in the future.  Tramway Null(0)

Street Trackage Map: Source: B. Linder