Dear Visitors:

Please scroll down the page to see present and archive blogs.

Thank you very much: Tramway Null(0)

Webrings - Maps - Trolleys and More

Navigation by WebRing.

Tuesday, July 4, 2017

My New York Subway Classification Scheme



BMT-IND Cars Types


  • R-32
  • R-42
  • R-46
  • R-68
  • R143, R160, R179 (In delivery), very similar to the R-142 and R-188 (IRT) Types.
  • R-211?
Cars in Red to be eventually replaced.
IRT Car Types
  • R-62
  • R-142, R-188  (Similar to BMT-IND R-143, R-160, R-179 types)
So folks, you will be left with cars that look like picture 1 and 3 below for the entire NYC Subway System, after the type in picture 2 (R-68) goes.



Pictures from NYCSubway.org website.
Picture (top) IRT R-142 and similar to the BMT-IND Types R-160 above)
Middle:  R-46 or R-68, one type
Bottom:  IRT R-62, one type.


I base this on the appearance of the cars.  Actually, there are sub classifications among these car types involving car arrangements, motors, breaking systems and cab widths.  Overall, as I see it, there are on a visual basis two IRT subway car types and 6 BMT-IND car types, or 8 types including the future R-211.  When the R-32's through R-68's are gone, and replaced with drone R-211 types, there will be three system wide types with no seats near windows!  What a boring place!

Just some thoughts about the old subway car types.  There are persons who specialize in this but the BMT Standards consisted of two types, A and B types that had different types of vents, roof construction and destination sign size and arrangements.

The IRT class of cars had many types dealing with different motor types, door arrangements, breaking systems, roof types and so on.  Of course, you had the wooden elevated types as well and articulated units of various types on the BMT.

What remains:  R-62 IRT Type and system wide R-160 types and the gangway type?

Imagine passing the Coney Island Yard and seeing one type of subway car, and a few museum cars?


Monday, July 3, 2017

When Will the Last Seat Next to a Window Come to an End in the New York Subway?


One of the joys of riding the subway as a youth was sitting next to window where your body is perpendicular to the window.  In this way, you did not miss the passing scene; every track switch,  every passing train, the line up of trains at a depot.  Yes, the cars of the Interborough Rapid Transit Company did not have seats near the windows, because your backs faced the windows, yet the windows were plenty and the windows were low.   The Low-V type of IRT subway cars had two long row of yellow seats.  Originally, some of the IRT cars that opened the subway in 1904 may have had a few perpendicular seats in the middle of the car where the center doors would be added later.  And some of the wooden elevated cars that ran on IRT elevated lines had some seats adjacent to windows.  Needless to say, the BMT  Standards and IND R1-9 Class had plenty seats near windows.  The first post war IND Car, the R-10 sort of changed things.  It had a similar seating arrangement similar to its' sister cars, the R1-9, but the window pane was high up for a six year old child or even an adult to see the passing scene.  The R-16, had a modern seating arrangement similar to the R1-9's but the window pane was high up.  Then it stopped!  Classes R-27-30, R-32, R-38's and R-40, R-42 had no longer seats near the windows.  Around 1969 and the early 70's this changed with the R-44, R-46 and R-68 classes on the former BMT-IND lines.  All post  R-68 equipment has no seats near windows and we are talking about thousands of cars.  Of course, all new IRT cars have no seats near windows except an experimental train set (R 110's ?) in the 1990's.  With new equipment coming with no seats near windows, eventually the R-46, R-68  classes will be phased out.  Even the new "walkthrough" trains will have no seats near windows.  So someday, 100% of the NYC Subway fleet will be R-160 look alike clones with not a single seat near a window in any class of cars.  I am not a train car historian, but I would guess that in the 19th Century, some wooden cars on both Manhattan and Brooklyn elevated had some seats near windows.  Don't forget, the dimension of the elevated cars was smaller than present day BMT-IND Equipment.  When will this sad day come that no piece of transit equipment in the NY subway will have any seats near windows?  How boring.
This is a R160A-1 car shot by Zach Summer and found at NYC Subway.org
Yes, this car is comfortable with air-conditioning and it looks nice, and it has sort of a seat near a window at the very end of the car,  there is very little variation in the car fleet now compared to years past.  This is in my humble opinion.  When the present look a like fleet and any similar cars that arrive in the future, become old, this will make the subway a very boring place.  I believe that the public, even though those persons who are not interested in rapid transit, would like to see some variation.  Well, you might say, the BMT starndards and IND R1-9's and many of the IRT Lo-v's were look alikes?  No one would ever confuse a Low-V with a Type D Articulated Unit.  There was variation between the divisions.  Not now.



  This a Joe Tostagrose picture taken in 5/21/71 of car # 1362 which is a Brooklyn Union Elevated gate car.  I am not sure if Manhattan Elevated Lines in the 19th Century had similar seating arrangements.  Taken from NYCSUBWAY.ORG website.


Proposed R-211 subway car with open gangways at printed in the NY Daily News.  Nice, but so similar to the R-160 class.  " You see one, you see them all..."

Inside of a IRT Low-V car taken by David Pirman on 2/23/63 on the White Plains Road Line.  Notice that the windows are low so that a person can still crank their neck and get a good view.

From "They Moved Millions" of the NYCSubway.org website.  This Manhattan Elevated Car 1584 (1902-11) had some seats near windows in the center part of the car.  This configuration was also present in early NYC Subway IRT Composite cars before center doors were added later.  The point being that even with a smaller profile, some seats were near windows on older IRT equipment.

Wednesday, June 14, 2017

Second Avenue El ended 6/13/42



This lithograph was posted in "Subchat" by "Queensboro Plaza" a few days ago.  It is a 1930 drawing by L. Lozowick and it shows, I believe where the Queensboro Bridge branch of the 2nd Avenue El separates from the 2nd Avenue mainline around 59th Street.  I think that it is very cool.  The late teens, 1920's and the beginning of the 1930's was the golden age of rapid transit.


Earlier picture of the 2nd Avenue El posted in this blog.




Second Avenue Elevated RIP



Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Jun 13 16:54:49 2017
In remembrance of the final segment of the Second Avenue El closing on June 13,1942, 75 years ago today, here is a 1930 lithograph by Louis Lozowick:

Sunday, April 30, 2017

I Found a Gem




Hi Folks:

  I came across this video by accident.  It is titled " Trolley Lines of Brooklyn PCC Cars Home Movie 52964MB" .  This movie was shot by Ben Young during the period of 1951 to 1956 and concentrates on the last three PCC operated lines in Brooklyn, Namely the Church Avenue, McDonald Avenue and Coney Island Avenue lines.    I never saw such a long trolley video and it lasts 29 minutes.  This movie covers many of the topics that is discussed in this blog.  A heavy concentration is on the portion of the Church Avenue line at the waterfront, just four blocks from the future Luchenbach ship disaster in December, 1956.  You see in detail the private right of way between First and Second Avenues to the loop.  You see hilly 39th Street as well with a shot a 39th Street 13th Avenue at the fruit store, which may have been called "Burdo Brothers - Poor People Friends".  You look up 13th Avenue and you see the Culver Line.  You will see the garages that I spoke about at 37th Street and the Lumber yard, the former Nassau Electric depot.  You see the Ocean Parkway underpass and you can catch a view of the Kings County Hospital main tower in the distance.  Some Culver Line shots are also shown with B type and AB type BMT standard cars.  You will also see the Ninth Avenue Depot and McDonald Avenue with a sharp decline to Coney Island in the distance.  Other shots include the Coney Island Avenue line at Church Avenue and the private right of way near the ocean with BMT trains overhead at the Ocean Parkway station.  The Coney Island Avenue viaduct over the Belt Highway is shown with PCC cars running gracefully in the middle.

Much more.  Copy and paste the code below in your browser.  You will really enjoy this.

It was nice to see all the old stores again.  The PCC Cars really ran fast and kept up  in traffic.

Tramway Null (0)

https://youtu.be/ZcL9nVShr48?t=33

Thursday, April 20, 2017

Proposed Waterfront Streetcar Between Brooklyn and Queens may be in Trouble

Hi Folks:

  Sorry for being away, but not too much was happening.   New news recently came about that the proposed waterfront streetcar between Brooklyn and Queens may be in trouble.  One source of trouble is the funding and the second may be the opposition form neighborhood residents and groups.  This may have been predicted.  One trouble source may be the cost of relocating utilities along the many mile right of way.  Why utilities should be relocated if new streetcar tracks do not need to have a base very deep into he ground is a question that I have.  This point killed the proposed 42nd Street Light Rail Line around 1994?   Other bad news, or lack of news, is that of the proposed trolleybus systems for Spokane, Washington and Montreal Quebec.    I think these proposals are dead because the away from the wire technology using batteries and capacitors is really advancing. Who needs wires anymore?  So systems buy battery buses.  The proposed trolley bus system for Leeds in England died about a year ago as well.

For establishing a new streetcar system or line for an area that is hostile towards electric transit or did not have it for many years, I would:


  1. Start with a very small line.
  2. The line should be a very strong feeder to a subway line where no other transportation is available except feed in bus lines.
  3. Development of real estate should not be a factor.  They can be used in built up areas.
  4. The new line should be marketed for efficiency in terms of moving people at a low cost, lower than that of diesel or battery buses.
  5. The new line should be somewhat grade separated from other traffic.
  6. The new line should not be expensive and have  not have all the bells and whistles.  A simple on surface stations should be available will a small canopy.
  7. If possible, used equipment should be used to emphasize low cost and efficiency,  New equipment can come later.
  8. The line should not block the view ( wires ) of  people who are hostile towards any type of wires.
  9. Modern streetcars are much more comfortable than any type of bus.  Conversion of diesel bus lines to streetcar should be put forth on the basis of efficiency, environment and passenger comfort.
  10. If possible, a streetcar line should feed seamlessly into existing heavy rail, such as found in Toronto.  Streetcars at some terminals dive underground and meet heavy rail at platform level for easy transfer between modes.  This can be very expensive for cities like New York.  A candidate would be the Essex Delancey former trolley terminal in the Lower East Side.  Do not use this hidden facility as a park but make it into a trolley terminal for streetcars going over the bridge.  This will help out when the "L' train tubes close down for repairs.
  11. Candidates may be: Streetcars at Pelham Bay Park station (6)  to Co-op City.
  12. End of Queens rapid transit lines:  179th Street Jamaica, Parsons-Archer.
  13. Staten Island routes and former North Shore Line.
  14. Central Bronx:  Former right of way of the Third Avenue El.
  15. Brooklyn:  Pennsylvania Avenue, Nostrand Avenue at Brooklyn College
  16. Lower East Side Manhattan access via a far east avenue to Union Square or 14th Street.


A Comment:
    Earth Day has been around for almost 50 years.  This year we celebrate it on April 22, 2017.
Of course, the City of New York, the various mayors that we had during this time and the Transit Authority are pro environment.  How come rarely or perhaps never, modern streetcars and trolleybuses were proposed as an efficient way to deal with the environment?  There are hundreds of bus lines in New York City; certainly at least one of them meets the criteria from an objective engineering viewpoint to be a good candidate for conversion into trolleybus or streetcar, not because of development but because of efficiency and comfort.


Tramway Null(0)

Friday, March 17, 2017

Look at This:

From Southern Brooklyn Scrap Book


This great photo was taken in 1941.  It shows that the incline to the IND subway to Church Avenue was in place and some of the steel structure was in place, but no steel structure was connected to the BMT Culver Line.  Pictures around 1954 shows that the northbound local IND track was connected to the BMT Culver structure south of Ditmas Avenue, near the signal and workmen shown above.  Notice the trolley line poles to the right on McDonald Avenue.  They were there since the Culver Line was electrified on the surface.  The BMT structure dates from 1919 so the poles were out of service from 1919 to at least 1941.  More to tell you later.

Tuesday, March 14, 2017

From Southern Brooklyn Scrapbook



https://www.facebook.com/groups/358251337697133/?ref=br_rs

 The same location, years later, but the bus is headed to New Utrecht Avenue.

Hi Folks:

  I found by accident a great blog called "Southern Brooklyn  Scrapbook" while its' main focus is not rapid transit, it has a lot of interesting pictures that I did not see before.  Right above is a B-23 Cortelyou Road trolleybus just about to pass under the Culver El.  I believe it is dated 1941.  This style of trolleybus was replaced by newer ones in 1948.  Under the Culver El is the South Brooklyn RR tracks as well.  Notice the wooden protect boards above.  38th Street Park is in the background.  The trolleybus is headed towards Flatbush Avenue